Comments on: Can ecological economists save us from the mainstreamers? http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/ Humanity's Greatest Challenge Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:13:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Economists can't take (quite) all the blame « Growth is Madness! http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-1232 Mon, 07 May 2007 23:12:47 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-1232 [...] ← Can ecological economists save us from the mainstreamers? If I’m right, do I win a Nobel Prize? [...]

]]> By: Magne Karlsen http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-403 Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:31:55 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-403 Well, I’m a European. The 1990s was – at least to a certain degree – a decade of war around these parts. What happened in former Yugoslavia was just incredible. The Russian war in Chechnya is a notable tragedy as well. As for the Americans; well. The NATO doctrine of out-of-area attacks and operations was the starting point, really, of what was to come in the aftermath of 9/11.

]]> By: Trinifar http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-394 Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:31:11 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-394 ‘We go a decade or so without war and it starts to feel like we’re “beyond” it.’

Yep. I was one of those who felt that way. I really never imagined that any US administration would ever again do something as foolish like the Iraqi war.

]]> By: John Feeney http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-378 Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:34:05 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-378 Unfortunately, our current war cost me much of my hope that we were more civilized than we used to be. I remember shaking my head at our rush to war long before we’d exhausted many other possible avenues.

We go a decade or so without war and it starts to feel like we’re “beyond” it. But then we’re back at it, no more civilized than one early human smashing a rock into the head of another. In fact, some tribal cultures developed ritual warfare in which no one really got hurt. We can’t even do that, it seems. I fear for our chances of tackling something as pervasive as this growth imperative in any civilized way.

]]> By: Trinifar http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-375 Wed, 21 Mar 2007 01:23:51 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-375 In my lifetime two events brought people into the streets with such frequency and in such large numbers the police response killed some of them: civil rights and the Viet Nam war. I wonder if the stresses of over population and global warming will be the third and why we can not be more civilized and find a better solution?

]]> By: John Feeney http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-373 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:14:02 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-373 Good question, Magne. They control 90% of the wealth, and a certain portion of them are doing their level best to destroy the ecosystem, which means they’re doing their best to kill a huge number of people.

Just how appreciative their descendants will be to inherit a ruined earth remains to be seen.

]]> By: Magne Karlsen http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-370 Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:11:48 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-370 John: “When those economists promoting and shaping policy continue to push ecocidal policies when they could instead play a central role in protecting the ecosystem, how is that not homicide?”

John: “Given that only a tiny percentage of human beings have the power to do anything about it, and are, in the end, at the mercy of the policy makers, it seems appropriate to apply the term, “homicide.”

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Blimey. – I woke up this morning with these words of yours, about “ecological homicide” ringing in my ears. It’s been a while since you wrote this, of course. And I don’t know what, at this point, would be the most intelligent question to ask.

Like .. ?

How did we come to allow less than 5% of the world’s population to control more than 90% of the property mass of this world?

Hmm.

]]> By: John Feeney http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-358 Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:44:53 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-358 Rob,

Well, “good bad” may actually be better than “bad good” in this case, I think. :) Turn eco-econ and you’ll be “good good”!

I’ve actually been seeing a bit about behavioral economics lately. Looks like it’s responsible for some fairly significant findings. Hmmm, in fact I think Magne, a regular commenter here posted a link a couple of days ago to an article about willingness to gamble on certain size wins versus losses, and the finding that people tend to be more sensitive to anticipated losses than wins. Interesting stuff. I’ll be interested to read more about it.

I read through a pretty detailed review of the Broome book. I’ll put it on the list. :)

You know, the real bad guys are the non-enviro-neoclassical-economists. When they’re not even really trying to take the environment into account, well, that’s really is bad.

]]> By: Rob Metcalfe http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-354 Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:28:45 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-354 Well I’m not too sure to make out of being called a good bad guy :-) I’m all for plurality, i.e. bringing env econ and ecol econ closer together. Indeed that is a important aspect of my research, notably bringing behavioural economics to bridge the divide between the two.

But neoclassical economics still has a lot to offer in terms of CBA, IAMs, indicators – essentially to include the environment in to decision making.

I noticed a few posts on population issues recently – you should read John Broome’s Weighting Lives book, its an excellent read from a philosopher – not an economist. See we do branch out.

]]> By: John Feeney http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-215 Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:03:08 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-215 Ah, I think maybe I’ve got it:

http://www.inclusivedemocracy.org/journal/ss/ss.htm

]]> By: Magne Karlsen http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-212 Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:15:16 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-212 No, I only tried to create a link directly to the 2005 issue mentioned above, but that failed. :-)

]]> By: John Feeney http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-208 Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:40:51 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-208 Magne,

Does your question about a link mean you posted a link which disappeared or something? I ask because I notice in my blog statistics today, under links which people have clicked, a link which doesn’t exist on the blog as far as I know. But I have no idea how a link would have been there, then evaporated.

]]> By: Magne Karlsen http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-206 Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:36:28 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-206 Hmmm? Whatever happened to that link?

Making use of the link above, – if you click on “Back Issues”, you’ll find: “Special Issue August 2005: The Multidimensional Crisis and Inclusive Democracy (entire book)”.

Okay?

]]> By: Magne Karlsen http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-205 Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:32:27 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-205 Trinafar,

Here’s the link to the whole journal (in which Chapter 7 appears) – published in 2005. ;-)

http://www.inclusivedemocracy.org/journal/

John,

These online translators are getting better and better, aren’t they?

]]> By: John Feeney http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-200 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 18:05:50 +0000 http://growthmadness.org/2007/01/24/can-ecological-economists-save-us-from-the-mainstreamers/#comment-200 Magne, I was just having a little … moro with an online translator. I guess it works for … liketil words. :^)

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